As the old saying has it, "The buyer needs a thousand eyes; the seller, only one." On barrels and actions of smoothbore guns with the gauge size. Courard be reproduced, in part or in whole, without the written permission of '. No maker's name anywhere? Cowboy & Old Western History Items 2/3/2023 Bargain Basement 2/3/2023 Check our Services. Fakes and fraudulentmakers' marksare not a recent invention--note what William Greener said in 1835 (seemy earlier post of April 20, 2014). A strong good product that will last for long usage in your is about 30 cm X 22 cm (11.80" X 8.60"). The Lion Rampant over PV was applied to the Optional Supplementary Smokeless proof for shotguns in 1898. Hi, Jeremy. All 31 Belgian gun makers, Belgium dealers and sellers and suppliers Home > Companies Gun & arms makers from Belgium country Czech Republic South Africa Israel Malaysia Netherlands Belgium Norway United Arab Emirates Finland Nigeria Ukraine Hungary Indonesia Lithuania Serbia Slovak Republic Croatia New Zealand Sweden Greece Japan Slovenia Well the bore is noted in the rhombus as >>12<< and the constriction values are >>18.2/18.2<< & >>17.3/18.2<< so with those it has to be a 12 bore. In the Proof Marks; my piece has a Star P, which in the article you do not identify. If 'JF' it could be Janssen Fils or Frres. Clement, Charles Pistol and revolver manufacturer in Liege, Belgium, c.1886-1914. Are also discussed the many markings found applied on the guns and their Counet - Genot Until 1894, stamped in .02mm graduations, then in 0.1mm steps, Degree of choke, in this case 0.7mm constriction. Bte" tells us the maker: it stands for "Dieudonn Debouxthay Brevete", or "Patent Dieudonn Debouxthay" in English. Sixteen-gauge guns generally fall somewhere in between. Tel: 01707 709372; Cap Joseph Liege, Belgium has been a gunmaking center for centuries. The same stamp but smaller is found on Flobert guns, selfloading pistols with a excess proof pressure of 50%, on barrels of top break guns for Flobert or revolvers cartridges an excess pressure of 30% and or revolvers which are proofed with 30-50% excess loads. Behr Jean jacques Bernimolin & Cap Bodson N. I found a couple on this site and also nramuseum.com leading me to believe its a British or Belgian gun. "Cueruy" could be the maker. Antique Shotguns (Pre-1899): Belgian Shotguns, Side by Side Shotguns Our inventory of antique shotguns is made up of shotguns manufactured before 1899, including English, French, and Belgian shotguns. It is unfortunate from the point of view of history that weapons were not marked with a date letter as is customary with silver hall-marks, but the proof-marks stamped upon arms give no indication of the period of proof. wolf and human romance manga J.C. Higgins Model 31 Parts, Schematic | Numrich Gun Parts Manufacturers J.C. Higgins Rifles 31 J.C. Higgins Rifles 31 Parts List Sort by: Show Available 0 Schematic w/ Parts List 2 Driving Spring 3 Driving Spring Guide 4 Barrel 5 / 6 Bolt 8 Buttplate Screw 9 Buttplate Trim 10 Cartridge Lifter 11 Cartridge Lifter . Judging by the comments that appeared when I Googled "spesco corporation," your guess is on target. After 1924 fractions of grams were no longer used 1892 - present 1K355.5 17 BELGIAN MADE, 12 GAUGE, BOXLOCK EJECTOR, 32" BARRELS, CHOKES MODIFIED & FULL, 2-3/4", BROADWAY RIB, GOLD WASHED SINGLE SELECTIVE INERTIA TRIGGER, NON-AUTOMATIC SAFETY, PISTOL GRIP, .Click for more info Seller: Country Pursuits Area Code: 718 $3,895.00 ROYAL GUN, BELGIUM SXS 12GA, GI#: 102149842 it says made in belgium on the side of the barrel yes but on the top of the barrell it says acier cokerill on 1 barrel on the top and on the other barrel on the top next to it it just says liege belgium and yes there is a stamp on the inside of the barrel next to all the other markings that says LLH what does that mean? to share our findings by this means of communication. Any maker's name on the rib between the barrels?Best,Gerry, 1902 a greener twobarrel it has hh on botten of barrel what do i have. The gun belonged to HH Nawab Ahsanullah. the examiner in determining the caliber designation of a military 4 0 obj I have not been able to locate an authoritative resource When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. They are often found in combination with proof-marks, and still more frequently on unproved arms made in countries where no official proof was existent. this location now so you can return often. Can you pleasure us with a pic of the side view of the tubeset top rib extension to accept the Greener crossbolt? Pistol made in Belgium, as you know. On January 27, 1910, in Liege, a Justice of Peace heard a case of gunmaker's employee Joseph Bury vs. La Zurich insurance company. Sounds like a 19th C. Belgian pinfire shotgun (grin). Serial Numbers. . to identify antique arms from different parts of the world, we decided Baron Emile Outdoor Hub, LLC (d/b/a Carbon Media Group), 30800 Telegraph Rd, Suite 1921, Bingham Farms, MI 48025 USA. Bovy Thodore Joseph Jacquemart-Pirotte Joseph Jamar & Cie Jamar Frres Jamar Jean Henri Jamar J. H. & Soleil & Smits Jamar-Smits Jean Henri Jamar Michel Jamin Marcel Jamri J. H. Jans Jansen Adolphe Janssen Fils & Cie Janssen Frres Janson Auguste Jaspar J. JBL Job T. Joiris Joiris & Geurten Joiris Jean, Vandenbergh G & Geurten J. Joiris Joseph Jolet Joseph barrel began as a means to insure its safety and integrity. Beckers G. Paypal, Order ~JP2lLn)wMO(;%vvRnS>2sw~zG!D""L0MW#+J%d)g"#Q4H&D4&KdU_};g|CN>Is>X&'vqFc&Pkr3EjZ1M&|dv55*6GI?/cOra#2K;cW>rLFtgtycw^4RiK-myVS[${XZw ho"=^f%DeiG wPnD6#diqSg].GI24?>.0 ?~wXy$6Sd3Ln2IdLL_#6)G7OE)7igF. Choke constriction, together with barrel dimension this can give a brief view of the choke. I can't ID the 'RM', who was likely the barrel maker. The other side of the coin is that quality can indeed be there in Belgian guns: The Belgian Browning Superposed were all fine guns, whilefirms like Francotte, Dumoulin, or Lebeau-Courallycould make guns of very high quality indeed. The system of proof in Great Britain was as follows: In England, the second charter of the Gunmakers Company granted in 1672 marked the beginning of the official proving of arms, but it did not apply to weapons made elsewhere in the Kingdom, provided they were not offered for sale in the London market. Besides these national collections, there are many municipal and private galleries whose curators have formed most excellent catalogues, but in the main this knowledge is uncoordinated. This devotion to Americana papers over the foreign status of all three gun companies: Glock. It is a hammer back breakaway 12 gauge side by side. These might cursive as well. Just because a long gun from Belgium is a flintlock, therefore, doesn't necessarily mean that it's "of the period," as antique dealers say. Savage continued to build guns under the A.H. Fox name into the 1940s. Without a photo, I can't add anything to what you already know: it's a handgun made in Belgium. On barrels of muzzleloading guns that has passed a re-enforced black powder proof. Your help is appreciated. firearms. with this information in an attempt to clear up some wrong information Collings Hadelin interlaced, and surmounted by a crown. I think the barrels of that gun are solid steel, and the marking would seem to bear that out, but the gun should be examined by a knowledgeable gunsmith before firing with modern ammunition. In England, the second charter of the Gunmakers' Company granted in 1672 marked the beginning of the official proving of arms, but it did not apply to weapons made elsewhere in the Kingdom, provided they were not offered for sale in the London market. to identify the manufacturer. Chaumont M.J. He designed iconic guns like the M1911 handgun, the Browning Hi-Power pistol, and the Browning Auto-5 shotgun. A reader hasasked me to say something aboutBelgian proof marks. 1870-1898. Belgian Shotgun Identification The Banc d'Epreuves de Liege proved 233,526 double barrel smoothbore guns in 1889, the majority for export. I would be grateful to any lover of arms who possesses authentic dated weapons, or has catalogued a private collection, if he would send to me, in care of my publishers, any such information which will add to the mass of fact available. The I have not fired it. Belgian Liege gunmakers (A to C) - Volume 1 By Alain Daubresse This printed and hardbound book, written in English and French by Alain Daubresse, provide an extensive insight about the gunmaking activity in Belgium from its very beginning to the middle of the 20th century. M Mecar (4 P) Pages in category "Firearm manufacturers of Belgium" Closset Louis - Remy Hubert Anyone else know? For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. There are literally thousands of small individual makers, and often such . These marks are customarily the cipher of the gunsmiths guild and the mark of the State or city. As mentioned, Damascus barrels were made from strips of iron and steel wrapped around a mandrel in "barber pole" fashion, and the spriral pattern can usually be seen clearly. Can you add any details? of data available and a wealth of color pictures about the most typical pieces of his Each gunmaker is presented with the maximum Come join the discussion about optics, hunting, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! These are original antique muzzleloaders that are made by individual gunsmiths or small manufacturing concerns, usually prior to the era of mass production, but sometimes well into the mid-19th century. In addition to In 1849 the additional ciphers for provisional proof the letters E.L. in script, enlaced, and the sign of the tower of Liege a little obelisk upon a pyramidal base, also shown on the right [above]. The problem is this mark was used from 1818 (muzzle loading period) until 1893, so that hardly narrows down the time frame. Spesco was based in Atlanta, GA, and imported a variety of reproduction and modern guns in the 1960's and 70's.It would be a good idea to check that the rifle is unloaded. Christophe Louis I have two sets of wood handles and artillery holster with marks of 7 ; 44; 105C. "Proofs" as they are sometimes referred to have changed over Bernimolin Is there a 70mm stamp on the extractor blade faces? gfk0W2|Z#C7xA5 2`f)Hj'[iZWMU=|J-T `)Mtex=]m$azBbk>$QPB gTb0nnPTbj\uD`.3;7 ;U}LuB+2aki!Ld1QNUwr$Oaj9,U1Oe~N2u]6;&?a'LOe3 NIIS/\4fFIGXT[,(rN]3"!2(4YBd^VUY:;jWCJ^f"X.2X:l\d>|D}#&Ofw`Rv|$6&)M carefully bound by threads. And I have a photo taken at Winchester, TX with Maj. Thomas Doan during the Dusty March, July 1863, Dechard, TN. It means it's a 12 gauge that has been proofed with black powder. Broqua & Scholberg It is located just above the circle with ELG. A forum community dedicated to Shotgun owners and enthusiasts including the Remington, Beretta, and Mossberg shotguns brands. We have provided you Collette Lopold Navigation (GPS, altimetres, compasses, maps), Immediate shipping on a all products listed. Subcategories This category has only the following subcategory. Andr M.J. The Standard mark for French Government arms was a crown above an E., and this crown has a three looped top, with the orb or ball and cross as ornament, and is so distinguished from the cross-crested crown of some St. Etienne weapons. Between 1847-1952 the stamp with the letter F-J C was used in the same purpose. Some older foreign I'm not familiar with the proof mark you describe, although a French one exists of AR with a three-pronged crown above, used for smokeless powder proof (but no M). Hunting, fishing, cooking, and other critical aspects of life. The major countries which either did not have proof or whose marks were not recognized were the U.S. and Spain. Wish I could be more helpful! so that means it is for sure a 12 gauge? Birmingham had also a proof, but this test was not obligatory, and makers evaded the tests. and hardbound book, written in English and French by Alain Daubresse, provide an extensive Ever seen that? A Adaptive Tactical Shotguns American Tactical Shotguns B Baikal Shotguns Barrett Shotguns Benelli Shotguns Beretta Shotguns Blaser Shotguns Browning Shotguns C Century Shotguns Charles Daly Shotguns Chiappa Shotguns Ancion Marx Can anybody shed some light here? The British Sporting Gun and Rifle: Pursuit of Perfection 1850-1900. R. Medina on October 31, 2020: ttn intnl model 1878 s/n 4751. michael v ventimiglia on October 30, 2020: new england firearms ( N G 001039 ) model r22 ultra mini. Hi, your shotgun was made after 1924 due to the Perron-Liege proof marks. The wood does not look ancient so I am guessing in the 1970s or so. JavaScript is disabled. Nessonvaux is short drive outside of Liege. As I've said, I'm not an expert. 1899-2011 Modern Guns. ArmsCollectors.com Collectable Firearms Forums Modern, antique and collectable firearms, questions answered, gun & militaria related items. I recently decided to clean it up. Their cipher or mark was the letters G.P. Email: Info@hlebooks.com Some older foreign manufactured firearms, such as pistols from Spain and Italy, will list a location, rather than a manufacturer. These firearms are cottage industry type weapons without a specific brand name. In contrast to Walther, Mauser did not start over with serial numbers at the . this book online and pay it through Paypal. country requiring that weapons sold within the respective country, and Good examples of the information that can be derived from adequate images. Hi, thanks for the info and knowledge you provided. The first on the left and the fourth (the one that resembles a candlestick)indicate provisional proof. CLIMAS Tradename used by J. Stevens Arms Co. on guns. Bertrand Antoine will normally provide the information needed to make a caliber For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. source of Manufacturer Serial Numbers. Photos of the flats on the barrels and on the action would help a lot. If there is no Lion over PV, the gun was NOT proved for smokeless powder. Britte Frres The second and third indicateit was proofed at Lige. Applied to all guns made but not proofed in Belgium - sent to an other country proof facilities. Coleye M. N. Colot Testing the gun Mark for voluntary treble temporary or provisional proof on unfinished barrels, Mark for voluntary double temporary or provisional proof on unfinished barrels. cardboard cover and the paper used for the printing was of the high glossy type and If you are considering buying a Belgian gun, look long and hard atits quality. I have my grand dads Belgian Browning A5 Sweet Sixteen. 2 On barrel locking system or chamber if the lumps are part of the barrel after final black powder proof, Preliminary proof for unfinished barrels, and indicated barrels had not been weakened after proof by breeching, Used on muzzle loaders, Bore diameter in millimeters. Bastin Frres The examiner must rely on proof marks when trying to identify these firearms. into which each separate book is dealing with a small portion of the whole, and that is There are a number of Braekers Charles & Cie Flintlock fowling pieces and rifles were made for the Northwest Indian trade until the early twentieth century; so, too, percussion long guns for sale in Africa. Applied to all gun not made in Belgium but proofed in Belgium. Can you send me some, Ed? This mark is found on guns that is not made in Belgium by countries that use proofs that is not recognized by the Belgian Proof House. The lack of chamber length probably means it was made before 1892.Is there a name on it? Shotguns became popular after the U.S. Army used them during the First World War while close-range fighting in trenches. . 254.541.2985 John Hille, john@jhille.com. thanks for the help so far. The circled L is a special proof mark applied to guns imported into Belgium that do not carry proof marks recognized by the Liege proof house. presented below is the first of the series and is covering the gunmakers whose names are This includes many fine Browning A5 shotguns and the Superposed shotgun. Original British Martini-Henry Rifle Extractor Mk IV From $34.95 Free Domestic Shipping on orders $300+ Hassle Free 30 Day Return Period 100% Safe Secure Checkout Guaranteed Authentic to the Historical Period The famous "hump back" was made in countless configurations and gauges. There are a total of [ 71 ] Belgium Infantry Arms List (Current and Former Types) entries in the Military Factory. I suspect the gun is a Janssen. Colleye Henri Joseph Proof I doubt pictures will help in this case, but I'm happy to look at them: send them to ghcox3@gmail.com. Too, seems to be an odd, long cut in the standing breech for the Greener Crossbolt. they were made + or - 1900 to 1930's. We present shotguns with a wide variety of features, technical characteristics, and prices from the worlds best companies, such as Chiappo, Italy; Tar Ideal Concept LTD, Israel and the leader of Chinese gun-industry - China North Industries Corp. (NORINCO). You can easily choose the shotgun you need on Ammoterra.com.
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