She has survived childhood sexual abuse, and removed herself from the Mormon church. Its like that thing of like, why do I have to talk to you about that? If you can do it for yourself, Im not going to do it for you. Because that is natures way. But Trinity time is coming. Friendships, even professional relationships. Martha Beck: Salty, klutzy and Aussie, Ro co-hosts the Bewildered podcast with her wife, Martha Beck. So write a list of things you have to do and then read through it and see if theres anything you dont want to do. And I was like, No, we have to have a group thread and youve got to call me sometimes and youve got to tell me that your day is going fine because I was really scared that they were the unit and I was the third wheel coming in. And that was really scary to me because it didnt feel solid. Your day sounds like freaking heaven. And the culture doesnt really go for that. Yeah. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices, Normal Gossip delivers juicy, strange, funny, and utterly banal gossip about people youll never know and never meet. Really? So Karen goes down to Florida to visit her mother, whos 80 what? A nice surprise: in each episode of SmartLess, one of the hosts reveals his mystery guest to the other two. Well, and they feel the undeniability of it, thats what happened with us. What happens when you don't deliver? Being around people and laughing with them and Im very lucky. But what I start doing is being really pathetic and apologizing for not doing everything and waiting for you guys to go, Well, we dont really expect you to do all those things. And then I go, Really? And you say, Yeah, its okay. And I say, Okay, sorry for being passive aggressive., Martha Beck: But I only want to talk to you for one hour a week until Im less busy. and they go, Oh. No, I got a lot out of that. This can look weird but it feels like total freedom. Yeah. Martha Beck: But then we try to make it persist throughout a life cycle where were always there for our kids and were always there for everybody trying to make them happy, the way you would try to make a brand new baby feel happy. So it would make sense that some kids are going to see the matrix early and be like, Oh, I see that Ive been assigned a role to play, but I actually dont feel like playing that role for you.. Like I was very lucky and that I grew up in a very progressive sort of family and city. Martha Beck: You managed to not only lift it, but make it make you fly. And now Im afraid she has like a gym phobia and will never work out again. She was monumentally narcissistic. I just need to lie down. Ro is currently pursuing publication for her first novel, a magical realist thriller set on the west coast of Ireland. Exactly. Row started coming to our residents. Shes awesome. Martha Beck: How Martha felt - after years of marriage to Karen - when Karen told her she was in love with Rowan, too. Like couples? It wasnt optional. I grew up in a very conservative Mennonite church and so was raised to be a codependent wife and mother. Now Im outdoorsy. Rowan Mangan: Relationships with depression are like any other. Thats not true. I cant tell lies or keep secrets and nothing weird can happen because I would have to tell the entire world about it. Oh my Gosh. The gates are open, whatever happens and thats the fun of it is you never know what adventure life is going to bring you when you say, I will live on this thread of truth that I feel is myself. Its like youre pulling this thread towards you. The rivalry between the Yorkish north and Lancastrian south h 4. And it was a radio program called Queen For A Day. Rowan Mangan: Though she was only in her 40s at the time, she looked like an aristocratic old lady in a period drama. And like they ask really inappropriate questions and things that heterosexual couples never have to deal with. https://linktr.ee/normalgossip,

The official podcast of the HBO Original Limited Series, We Own This City. Okay, and Im doing my coachy stuff. I think you can restructure it. Its sexualizing yourself in front of people over and over and over again, that is traumatic. I was a single woman living in Melbourne with a mortgage and a freelance career. I have literally been called the antichrist in public and I always I responded, I thought that he would be taller. So if we want to follow Bev and say, okay, to come back to our true nature, away from whats our wild nature here, away from the kind of culturally informed codependent. And the non-binary people that I know are amazing. And what you have to do then is-. And its pervasive. She also, when things are awkward, just runs away. Dr. Martha Beck is a New York Times bestselling author, life coach, and speaker. And then you slowly come down again. Ooh. Whats stupid ass things do people say that hurt your feelings? Life is freaking hard. Well, Im thinking of Sunday snuggles. And it just naturally every time happens, its the best. Wow. Rowan Mangan: This isnt just me. So what you do with a kettlebell, its like youre trying to lift an incredibly heavy bucket of despair. Get healthy, balance your life, and improve relationships and productivity with New York Times Best Selling Author, Celebrity Fitness Trainer & Diet Debunker Chalene Johnson and guests. Like to me, conflict feels very chaotic and scary. The culture says its got to be the myth of courtly love ever since, not Courtney love, courtly love. Do you like blue cheese? But on her way, we kept getting these updates from Rowan Mangan. Use me, use me, use me. And it means compassion, I guess, but its the joy in watching two people you love love each other. Part of Audacy. Like thats part of their sense of themselves in the world. Oh, but isnt that a beautiful way. And I put a lot of money that I did not have. And that is the work of a lot of marriages, like straight marriages where theres cisgender norms. You try to do everything and every now and again you burn out. Wasnt he the one with wings on his feet? And thats how codependency feels. You treasure your connection with blue cheese. Martha Beck is silly and insightful, and listening to her and Rowan Mangan giggle while talking about how to get back to our true nature is delightful. How Martha felt after years of marriage to Karen when Karen told her she was in love with Rowan, too. And that gets applied to womens lives much more broadly because if were all running ourselves ragged, at a certain point, were not good to anyone. I mean, youve had plenty of experiences this way. If you dont have that ability to recognize, love and participate in it, whatever form it takes. This ones ab, SPOTIFY AND THE BEWILDERED PODCAST Copyright 2023 Apple Inc. All rights reserved. TW: @rowanmangan And wed sit down with our coffee in front of the fire. I think shes going to pop the question tonight. And everybody has to do tons of psychological pre-work so that I know whom to sick the lions on. You know that its one of your jobs to buff my pedestal. Rowan Mangan: And we would all, our only common language was Chinese, so it was very strange. You were a little bit, yeah. Is that what you call it these days? Martha Beck: Rowan Mangan: She holds three Harvard degrees in social science, and Oprah Winfrey has called her "one of the smartest women I know." Her newest book, The Way of Integrity: Finding the Path to Your True Self, was an instant New York Times Best Seller. I watched in awe from my home while this simple phrase from Untamed WE CAN DO HARD THINGS the mantra that saved my life twenty years ago, became a worldwide rally cry. Rowan Mangan: Yale professor Dr. Laurie Santos has studied the science of happiness and found that many of us do the exact opposite of what will truly make our lives better. So we would just talk about how to help Row feel like it was solid because we both knew it was. I would have to guess Reese Witherspoon. It was such a strange and wonderful thing for me. She also runs the Wild Inventures newsletter and community on Substack. Im really exhausted. There is a lot of mother and wife in there. So I was interviewing women and one of them said she went to her religious authority and she said, My family makes me do everything for them. Yeah. Forgiveness & the Audacity to Rebuild, LaKendra Adesuyi, Adalis Jones, LaMechia Dixon, All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg, No Mercy / No Malice: Taking Affection Back, RV E44 - What Makes an Entrepreneur | Bopcast with Ryan Sullivan, Operation Choke Point 2.0: How Crypto Can Fight Back, EP760: My Husband Plays Rock Paper Scissors With His Coworker? I have all I am doomed to be a cultural outcast. Ro is currently pursuing publication for her first novel, a magical realist thriller set on the west coast of Ireland. The first thing is to notice that its happening. What is Polyamory and how Martha, Rowan, and Karen make their relationship work. Rowan Mangan is a writer, podcaster, and mom to a vivacious toddler, Salty Clexy and Ozzy. And now theyve done a re-publication of Codependent No More and guess who they sent it to for a blurb? New episodes on Mondays for free. No, but I just, I mean, if Martha Beck, you just reframed my hours and hours of TV time as camping. This is the code, when its a newborn baby, Im still talking about newborn baby. Because were-. Like, so whenever anybody has a non-binary kid, we get the call first and theyre like, can you queer auntie them? Yes. And that cut right to the day that Karen came to me because she got to know Rowan better than I really did and they were hanging out together a lot. And I saw you struggle to be really positive. Rowan Mangan: Martha Beck: Yeah. Rowan Mangan: She holds three Harvard degrees in social science, and Oprah Winfrey has called her one of the smartest women I know. Her newest book, The Way of Integrity: Finding the Path to Your True Self, was an instant New York Times Best Seller. Rowan Mangan: And some cuddles while we watch television. And Im doing these things for physical therapy that are called kettlebell exercises. I mean-. Theres the clues from other people. There was like someone we kind of knew had done a post on Facebook that day about Im interested in this thing called polyamory. We figured. seriously, they were-, They were like, This feels like something you would end up with.. (Topic Discussion starts around 00:09:23). She just thought, oh. Of course, nothings happened. And I never know, like it could go anywhere. ENTER YOUR NAME AND EMAIL ADDRESS TO RECEIVE THE REPLAY, Privacy Policy: We hate SPAM and promise to keep your email address safe. I mean, we have friends who have come to us and said, listen, just like along the way, I realized that my identity is queer. Rowan Mangan: The hilarious moment Martha, Karen, and Rowan told their friends they were now a throuple. We have this silence thing. 2. Thank you, Bev. Oh, this is exactly what we wanted to talk about. Chalene delivers straight talk and simple strategies (with a side of humor) so that every show delivers a return on your investment of time. 1. And so the whole getting interrogated and having to defend yourself and everything, she knew that wouldnt happen to her with her most intimate people. Two reasons: one, it would fill the sky and there would be nothing else to write about. Rowan Mangan: 2023 Podvine, LTD. All rights reserved. Were all outnumbered. I think so many ways have been tried and look around us, they are disastrous. And so then over time we sort of edged towards what was actually happening, because the one thing about Martha and Karen is anyone who knows them, knew them, that that is not ever going to break up. Its like everything else is just structures in your brain. Yeah. How many good mothers does it take to put in a light bulb? Martha Beck: And I think everybody should get a chance to do it. It involved like sitting close together on the couch, the three of us. And we had this little girl during COVID times and God, how do people raise a child with less than three women? But I think the other thing that we do well is that we have a lot of rituals in our lives that involve the three of us and so in through the day. We miss you. So then were in Africa that time and Row We go out to see the animals and were silent. Oh my God. People who don't experience empathy, such as narcissists and psychopaths, are very hard for codependents to understand. Made in , 1. At least not for me. Said 1% of the population that theyre in a deeply satisfying domestic arrangement. Or if theyre in that place, is it just probably better to move on? And then you just kind of encounter someone who is already a spider. No, but Im aware that some people might. Rowan Mangan Communications. Rowan Mangan: And you go zipping about, you get caught in the web of someone who is already entitled, and then they get angry at you if you dont serve them the way their mother did or whatever. We dont have your exact situation, but we do have three parents. Rowan Mangan: The hilarious moment Martha, Karen, and Rowan told their friends they were now a throuple.4. Do you have experience of trying to get out of one of these? How was it for you? Keep these comming, 2023 Podvine, LTD. All rights reserved. You speak them all the day long. Youre a fly. You grab the kettle bell by its weird little handle, and you slowly, in a controlled fashion, you stand up from your deep squat as you lift the bucket of despair over your head. 2, Kal Penn | Getting Warmer with Kal Penn, Episode 403: Everything about this is wrong, The Fox News Defamation Lawsuit: Money, Ideology, Truth, LiesIts All Right There, How To Tell Engaging Stories With Your Social Media Content. So Im doing this with like 15 pounds and its killing me. Rowan Mangan: Its just because she had her kids really young so its going to surprise you when you hear how old. Welcome back to We Can Do Hard Things. And I knew exactly what I was doing. Rowan Mangan is a writer, podcaster and mom to a vivacious toddler. Ive said previously that we believe that the sperm donor for Rows IVF procedure was Zeus. Dr. Martha Beck is a New York Times best selling author, life coach and speaker. Yeah. I think its just like that thing where I dont I think its just the way that humans sort of come apart and come together clump and everything is always unique. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Listen to new episodes of Borderline Salty by Pineapple Street Studios every Tuesday starting April 12. Melbourne, Australia. And Im like, Thats because youre half Zeus. Rowan Mangan: Its like, its a family, its a family. But then we came to a point where Id been spending so much time out there and it was like, okay, were got to talk to the other people that we go and have dinner with and stuff on the ranch. What do you think Ive read on like nine different philosophies, and I think if we just bring this from that style and this from this style. And I dont think theres a parent out there whos tried to be a good parent who hasnt felt this way, like put the baby first to the point where you are falling apart. You think you should cook, you should clean, you should get Lila, give her a bath. But she can fly with a kettlebell too. So I was in my late thirties at that point, mid late thirties. Martha Beck: Borderline Salty is a weekly podcast hosted by Carla Lalli Music and Rick Martinez. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy, Learn more about your ad choices. That ends today. And it said, Id like to come down, could you please be my mother? And she was just sobbing. I cant do it. And I mean, Im putting that strongly. It's the best podcast app and works on Android, iPhone, and the web. learn about upcoming episodes, and participate in callouts ahead of podcast taping. Its non judgment. I mean, now parts of it are, but its still considered super weird. Go to my website, rowanmangan.com/bewildered. Yes. Thank you. Not at the time we got together, but a long time ago I had three kids. And now Im thinking about things happening. So can you talk to us first about how this all came together? Rowan Mangan: There you go. Rowan Mangan: And the TV was on and it was a documentary about bears, which the narrator pronounced bear. The mother bear will not do for any other bear what that bear can do for itself. Get off whatever web is causing you to over help and under care for yourself. Thats what we want to talk about. Martha Beck: Martha and Ro dig into the difference between a life that's prescribed by culture, and one that we invent from our inner wild selves. But the woman says to the man, Youre really entitled. And, He goes, really? And you are not in the equation. On the way So we do all this pre-work for these folks who come on this safari thing, I just got back from there. We knew that we were solid. Its amaze balls. Come ride a rollercoaster of trust, hope, betrayal, love and loss: from the funny to the devastating. What does one do living next to a spider you dont want to walk away from? She holds three Harvard degrees in social science, and Oprah Winfrey has called her one of the smartest women I know. Her newest book, The Way of Integrity: Finding the Path to Your True Self, was an instant New York Times Best Seller.TW: @TheMarthaBeckIG: @themarthabeckAbout Rowan:Rowan Mangan is a writer, podcaster and mom to a vivacious toddler. Can you tell me what made you feel embarrassed? Rowan and I believe that the best way to figure it all out is by going through bewilderment into be-wild-erment. Martha, didnt you write about that like decades ago? How would you be confused? To other throuples or other polyamory couples really. Rowan Mangan: Yeah. I have to show you. And look here you are explaining it with language to our grateful listeners. Yeah, bashing down pillars. Whatever. And not even that. Cookie information is stored in your browser and performs functions such as recognising you when you return to our website and helping our team to understand which sections of the website you find most interesting and useful. Martha Beck: How Martha felt after years of marriage to Karen when Karen told her she was in love with Rowan, too. 2. Bewildered is produced by Scott Forster with support from the brilliant team at MBI. She also runs the Wild Inventures newsletter and community on Substack. Im trying to confuse you, in a positive way. So he calls it wine time. So, yeah, her superhuman strength is becoming a huge issue as she approaches two years old. For an addict its when you realize that all the control efforts youre trying to use, I mean, sorry for a codependent, its learning that you cant control other people, no matter how hard you try. In this chapter, I discuss case-studies that have used animal-cognition principles in conservation. What is Polyamory and how Martha, Rowan, and Karen make their relationship work. So theyre no longer in the picture in terms of being in the house. And it is a VIBE. This website uses the following additional cookies: (Facebook Pixel, Google Ads Tracking & HotJar Tracking). About Martha: I know, its gross. Martha Beck: So they were kind of raised on a king size bed where Id throw food occasionally. And one close to our hearts. Yeah? Like jealousy does come up, but its not like just because jealousy might be there that its a deal breaker for a relationship. Rowan Mangan: Through in-depth stories from a wide range of characters from people who tried to stop the attack to those who took part hosts Andrea Bernstein and Ilya Marritz explore the ongoing effort to bring autocracy to America, the lasting damage that effort is doing to our democracy, and the fate of our attempts to combat those anti-democratic forces. Our newsletter is free and we will never send spam or sell your email address. Martha Beck: We rehearsed it. Being gay when we were growing or when I was growing up, it was so weird that they wouldnt even put it on. Rowan Mangan: The hilarious moment Martha, Karen, and Rowan told their friends they were now a throuple. And its just so beautiful to hear you say we are abnormal and very, very happy. We feel like the queer elder aunties now. Martha Beck: Martha Beck: Have you seen these things? Not necessarily like sexually, but just like time and like all of the things, attention. Rowan Mangan: The hilarious moment Martha, Karen, and Rowan told their friends they were now a throuple.4. Site by Lilt Creative, So this arrived today. In both writing and editing, I produce polished, professional work to tight deadlines. And so the thing that always occurs to me with this is I ask myself if I want to find a way to come home is its really simple. Oh, now that sounds bad. Why do you follow the culture when you see what the culture has done, right? Or, look, this is not good behavior. Yeah. Rowan Mangan: These short bites of knowledge and wonder will give you inspiration to stay on your mission, build consistency, and serve others with all your heart! I havent been successful at making everyone happy even though Ive spent myself trying to do it.. Rowan Mangan: How does it feel for you when you know youre exhausting yourself taking care of others? And if theyre young to me, Im like, that is, that is a person that is really trying to not just figure out themselves, but the world and seeing all of these bullshit barriers that were all told and made to live within. And Rows like, I dont even care anymore. Writer Podcaster. So the first thing that happens in the morning, well Karen gets up with the baby because she gets up at like, I dont know, two or something. Then Rowan Mangan is in Cape Town. This episode really triggered me and I am mulling it over. Because thats a good way to think about it is that you assume everyone else is as needy and unable to communicate as a newborn baby, so you have to read their minds, guess their needs, give them what they want before they even know they want it, and always keep them happy. Martha Beck: And I write and talk about integrity. I think thats one of the optional things. Like going out to that thing or being among humans or something gross like that. And I thought they were going to get together. Rowan Mangan: Its crazy. I'm currently redrafting a novel about Ireland, magic and the dangers of charm, which is due to be completed in late 2018. I want to ask you about something, which Ive been thinking, which is jealousy. Rowan Mangan: Salty, klutzy and Aussie, Ro co-hosts the Bewildered podcast with her wife, Martha Beck. For me, I was mostly dating guys when we got together. Martha Beck: Well talk about anybody who has really tried to excavate themselves. And so I thought, oh, is he going to think this is so weird? And of course, we immediately started groveling to your friend because thats what a good codependent does. Martha Beck: Were such good friends. Its right. Im from Ohio. But then when she came and saw our family, there was no discussion after that. Nothing has happened. Is that how you describe?